Kilkenny v Tipperary - NHL 2010

[scrapper69]

It has been a funny read.

It is a site for discussion and people are giving their opinon which is a right - maybe the words "f**king useless" are a little harsh but I don't think it was meant with the venom people thought and is not an attack on willie. Willie has been struggling but the fact of the matter is that he is probably not going to be in the first 15 and maybe knows that himself. Either way he is giving his all and there training every week so fair play to him.

In saying that he wouldn't make my Kilkenny team but I would have him in there evry week giving our backs a good work out.

2) I don't think our forwards are as poor as people make out, it is March lads and they had a long year last year. The difference that shefflin and power will make when they come back in will be huge because they create scores and space. Those two are key because they offer a slightly different level/type of hurling to the forwards.

If we are positive, we have found a new centre back (that most people knew existed) and our full back line looks solid even if Hickey doesn't make it back.

I don't think it is fair to be harsh on the forwards until some of the main forwards are back as the guys out against Tipp won't be expected to make all the scores but perhaps pick a hand pass off Shefflin, Gorta or power with a good run. If you took out our half back line from the Tipp game and put in three others from the panel the whole backs as a sytem would look worse - fact no matter how good our panel is.

Who ever posted about the shamrocks forwards is right - That team has forwards not backs for the county team more than any so they are being missed.

[Leahy Abu]

Lets get some perspective on this

Some valid points made on both sides - and we can expect that from Tipp supporters when finally they beat us

IMO it was a better result for KK than we think - I feel its a small bit of pressure of us and if it builds up Tipp, who may go on and win the Lge now, well and good.

Also, the unsporting behaviour of Sheedy in his manhandling will not sit well with Cody, if he feels Sheedy was laying down a marker, and it certainly overstepped the mark - Sheedy is under enormous pressure in 2010 - tipp win AI he gets another few yrs, lose again and he's gone.

KK were solid and tidy in the backs, but very very poor upfront yesterday

for me it shows that the we only have the 6 or 7 forwards to count on come big game time.

How much is left in the tank for Gorta, Eddie , Sheff and Taggy will be interesting. Larkin was very rusty yesterday and R Hogan in my view has a long way to go yet.

IMO - Willie O'Dwyer has had long enough and will never make it, nor will Grace, McGrath or PJ Delaney in a regular 15 - not good enough at KK level

The backs are solid and will benefit from Jackie at 6, Hogan as solid replacement for Hickey at 3, and Dalton at 4. Options a plenty for Cody

MF will need Cha at his best and bit-part from Lyng. Tennyson could hurl there this year and Rice is always an option again at 9

so far so good............

Forward 6:
Power will always be there in my view, just needs the big day championship hoodoo off his back - big display, score well and his in heaven - I hope
Larky - when fit and by Aug a match winner
Gorta - one last hurrah
Eddie - showed signs last year of tiredness but will step up and an extended break from action could be the answer
Sheff - hurling masterful at 11 with club - will 17th be his crowning glory - I think Portumna and Joe will win out, but I expect Sheff to make a good contribution again this yr for Cats - maybe at 14
TJ - needs to break in at 12 and hold it - we need this freshness this yr
Colin Fennelly - off the bench role ?
R Hogan - for me not good enough - for others a class act - my jury is still out
Taggy - played so poorly v Offaly and Tipp he looks a far distance from the heights of 08' - can he hang on ?

Interesting year ahead and Tipp look very solid on yesterday's display
Very solid back 6 again with P Maher a rock for them at 3 - he will be hard to beat again this year
Fanning, Curran, O'Mahoney all big men that can hurl with good wing men - impressive IMO
Midfield - must find a partner for McGrath
HF line - God help them if they persist with Benny - he must have played all positions at this stage - Sheedy's weak point ??? Paul Galvin syndrome and talis man for 2010 ???
Forwards - any forward line that has Kelly, Lar and McGrath in the height of summer fully fit could do serious damage - not bad
Callinan and all others - can they find scoring ball winning hf line - big question ? if they do they will pose a serious threat to us, if not we could shade it again, but we must find an answer to our big failing last yr - we could not win ball at HF v Tipp in AI

Overall, teams are wll matched - are they on the up and KK on the road down - could go either way IMO.

Very fair and reasonable assessment imo. I'd disagree with you on Richie Hogan though I think he has the ability to be top forward in country now and not just in a few years time.

I'd 100% agree with you on Benny Dunne and this could be the sword Sheedy falls on sadly. Aside from the fact he has never done anything good in a Tipperary jersey (despite 101 chances in 10 different positions) he shouldn't be let near IC Hurling after what he did last September.

[kkhan]

I don't think it is fair to be harsh on the forwards until some of the main forwards are back as the guys out against Tipp won't be expected to make all the scores but perhaps pick a hand pass off Shefflin, Gorta or power with a good run.

Agreed, Richie Hogan, Taggy, Grace, Mullhall et al would all play better even with only some of the main men back in the forwards.

[Exile]

I'd 100% agree with you on Benny Dunne and this could be the sword Sheedy falls on sadly. Aside from the fact he has never done anything good in a Tipperary jersey (despite 101 chances in 10 different positions) he shouldn't be let near IC Hurling after what he did last September.

It's weird, I've met a few Tipp people who feel this way, and yet most KK people just think it was an out-of-character mistake. Interesting reversal, normally you'd expect it to be the other way round.

Dunno about Hogan, he clearly has potential but just doesn't seem strong or big enough under dropping ball to be a top-class half forward. But there is a tendency to over-emphasise recent performances, and what happens in February and March shouldn't weigh too heavily. Does anyone else think he's looking a good bit more in-shape this year? He's probably been doing a lot more fitness than hurling so far this year, no? That would explain a lot of the poor work by forwards on both teams Sunday.

[one in a row 48 n 59]

As a neutral watching this game sunday , there were few impressions of any note left after a typical enough early season league game , but it does dispel the theory ( not often promoted by knowledgeable KK people I add , more a "media" blurb ) of KK having "two teams" to beat anyone , a few who appeared for KK on sunday are unlikely to see championship daylight , and are after having a few cracks of the whip by now too . For Tipp it may well have been some sort of shot at redemption , not prize winning obviously , but psychological ...and for me thats all it was . Until Tipp find a 70+mins midfield partnership , a half-forward line able to forage / win primary posession ...well the likelyhood is they will always find one too good in the championship . I read a piece last year and it named the 38 ( I think ) players who have played in Tipps hf line over the last 4 years of championship , and even today I dont think they're any wiser or better off , it could well be the straw that breaks Sheedys back .

[hurling mick]

In hurling its the Half back & half forward lines that really decide who will win a game & with that in mind
i would not mind going into championship battle with Tommy, Jackie & JJ at half back
& TJ, Henry & Larkin at half forward.
Tipp would not have that type of quality on those lines though Maher at full back is
class & full forward line is good.
I would take a good half forward line over a good full forward line any day.

[Bogcat]

Plenty of skill and no shortage of courage but he has a short stride and doesn't have the pace to get away from larger opponents. I think this is a major problem for his future development as a hurler.

I don't have much of a problem with the rest of your post HSC and I usually find your posts interesting and informative but this is crap. It's like something you'd hear before the Superbowl. He has a physique a bit like Maradona, low centre of gravity very strong legs and upper body. it's acceleration that will get you away from a player and his frame, at pace will easily break a tackle. He's not tall but he seems to use a long hurl for his size and hurls from the wrists. More importantly he appears to have the head for it, very cool under pressure and looks like he was born for championship hurling. I think he's more effective in the corner though.
Anyways, sure we'll see how he gets on for the rest of the year, part of the fun isn't it.

[High St. Cat]

.... this is crap. It's like something you'd hear before the Superbowl.

Can't answer that. No idea what you mean.
... He has a physique a bit like Maradona, low centre of gravity very strong legs and upper body. it's acceleration that will get you away from a player and his frame, at pace will easily break a tackle. ..... I think he's more effective in the corner though.

Agree with most of the above. I admire Richie and would love him to emerge as a special talent. For a small man he is very good to contest and win high balls. Problem still remains that when he wins possession on half line, if he can't shoot or pass he has to take on opponent, round him and stay ahead of him. At corner forward your acceleration argument is correct. At half forward you need sustained pace, especially now that referees are getting strict on players, especially forwards, and most especially KK forwards, overcarrying or leaning in to opponents. Bigger men e.g. Henry and Larkin can use their physique to fend off would-be tacklers. Players with the pace of Eddie Brennan can burn them off e.g. run out of defence v. Clare in Ennis last year and v. Tipp in League Final.

I think if you watch the videos you may agree (or not!) that Richie finds it difficult to make space (and sometimes ends up drifting out field) when he wins a ball with his back to goal, whereas he is lethal running onto a ball at pace facing the goal. If you think watching videos is just more Superbowl bull**** you should talk to Offensive Coach Fogarty!

All that said I hope you're right about Richie's pace.

[Bogcat]

Agree with most of the above. I admire Richie and would love him to emerge as a special talent. For a small man he is very good to contest and win high balls. Problem still remains that when he wins possession on half line, if he can't shoot or pass he has to take on opponent, round him and stay ahead of him. At corner forward your acceleration argument is correct. At half forward you need sustained pace, especially now that referees are getting strict on players, especially forwards, and most especially KK forwards, overcarrying or leaning in to opponents. Bigger men e.g. Henry and Larkin can use their physique to fend off would-be tacklers. Players with the pace of Eddie Brennan can burn them off e.g. run out of defence v. Clare in Ennis last year and v. Tipp in League Final.

I think if you watch the videos you may agree (or not!) that Richie finds it difficult to make space (and sometimes ends up drifting out field) when he wins a ball with his back to goal, whereas he is lethal running onto a ball at pace facing the goal. If you think watching videos is just more Superbowl bull**** you should talk to Offensive Coach Fogarty!

All that said I hope you're right about Richie's pace.

Again I agree with most of what you are saying but I disagree that his size will affect his development. In football perhaps but in hurling it'll be more about his positional sense and the lines he takes (which you've alluded to). He'll never be able to take a ball like Power or Sheff but it takes all these players time to development their game and adjust it to senior inter-county, Eddie Brennan, Larkin, Gorta all took a couple of tears to come into their own. They all have different physiques and styles. I think thats the beauty of hurling whether you're a Sheflin, JJ, Tommy, Cha or Gorta you can have your own style and still be very effective and the best in your position. There is no formula, not like American Football, Basketball, certain Athletics.

[Cody's Cap]

Eoin Kelly isn't the biggest or the fastest but he's the best corner forward around. I believe Ritchies problem has been adjusting to the speed and physicality at senior level. Also the pitches at this time of year suit defenders, there's no bounce and it's harder to get away from lads.

[Skehan]

here the f*****g site is here 4 us to give our opinions ok! just cos we slate 1 player doesn't
mean we dont appreciate what these special bunch of players has done over the last 10yrs
we owe these players nothing and they have givin us absolutely brilliant memories over that
period and countless wonderful performances..not genuine or real supporters your having
a f*****g laugh..in the last 10yrs iv been over at training hundreds and hundreds of times
have gone to league matches in cork,limerick,galway,clare all over the place,walsh cup
mathes out in freshford in the pissin rain,f*****g since the quarter final again galway in thurles in 97
i could count on 1 hand how many championship games i have missed..so dont goin sayin im not
a real supporter or dont appreciate what they have done 4 this county just cos i tink 1 of the
players is useless..ya dunno what your talking about!.

Jasus you are some muppet!!!! To come out with a statement that "Willie O'Dwyer is f**king useless" truely shows how much you know about these players. If you attended all those training sessions as you claim to have you would know how well O'Dwyer was going and he was in serious contention for getting on the starting 15. O'Dwyer has what... minor, U21 and 5 senior All Ireland medals in his back pocket. He's hardly "F**king Useless". Grow up you clown!!!!

[stevehoyne09]

just my opinion is all..ye your rite he was goin well in traing but im just on about when it comes to the big day hes not
up to it.ok he scored 2-3 in the leinster final in 07 but u must admit he has struggled to regain any form since then.
an ye id actually admit f*****g useless was to strong of a word! but he has bein around 4 a long time now and i tink
by now he should have pushed the likes of power taggy and richie hogan 4 a startin place..im sorry 4 insulting the man
just tink with the talent the man has he at this stage of his career wud of broken into that team.

[patch adams]

f*****g useless thats a disgraceful comment to make , it dosnt matter how many matches or training sesions ya have been it dosnt give ya any privlages to degrade a player like that , rember your not the only one on this site or in kilkenny to attend every match or training sesion ... No player county or club ever goes out to have a poor game , and willie would certantly off be hoping to nail a place on the team ... okay it didnt happen for him , but he will bounce back ... But certantly no player should be called f*****g useless it dosnt matter if he is number 1 on the team or number 30 or even team doctor or selectors all these people involved in the kk set up put back on every aspect off there lives to represent the county from cutting back on work , to time the spend with there families and friends and there social lives ..Thats the way inter county hurling and football has gone ... They owe us nothing as they have brought us endless hours off enjoyment and made kilkenny a proud place to be from and while we dont give much back in comparison we do owe em one thing a bit off respect ... God help the day we do loose ( hopefully not soon) will these players be all F***ing useless then .... There should be IQ tests a several other mental tests before we let some people on this site

[Maor Uisce]

I wouldn't mind being as bad as Willlie O'Dwyer

[stevehoyne09]

yes i said sorry 4 insulting the man and i retrack the comment.it was more out of frustration with his performance sunday
that i said that and i do apologise 4 saying it..it was out of line saying it..but bein called a muppet and and a
clown an bein basically bein grilled about my mental health is a bit unfair..i said that i was sorry bout the comment
just hope ye all dont jump on the bandwagon..an yes i wouldn't mind bein as good as him either.

[Proud to be a cat!]

Lads Tommy Walsh wouldn't be the tallest man in the world and he is able to catch some balls in the air ,so in regard to Richie Hogan and his height maybe Tommy could give him a few tips. Jj or Noel are not that tall either come to think of it.
Just goes to show the pure class we have in Kilkenny.

[Bogcat]

I wouldn't mind being as bad as Willlie O'Dwyer

I feel your pain

[fort stranger1]

Has Gul moved to Kilkenny, the rants, bad grammar, repeating himself - its all a bit eerie

[KilkennyRocks]

They owe us nothing as they have brought us endless hours off enjoyment and made kilkenny a proud place to be from and while we dont give much back in comparison we do owe em one thing a bit off respect ... God help the day we do loose ( hopefully not soon) will these players be all F***ing useless then ....

Well said!!
And as I said previously they've done us proud over the years so win, lose or draw they will always be true legends!!