Who Do Non Kilkenny People Want To Win?

[Hattons Grace]

It's tricky. Who do I want to win, (well who do I want to loose more then who do I want to win.)
Who do I want to win, well..

Well there's pluses and negatives..
For KK, personally, I don't want KK to go ahead of us in the hall and I don't want KK to win the three in a row either.

But from a neutrals point of view, if I can call myself that.
KK as good as they are, I hate their game tactics, I hate their style.
Sure ya if Cork played like that and won I'd have no complaints but the KK tactics bore you to tears, it's and I know what response I'll get for this, but it's "Ulster football tactics", "puke hurling"..etc. But like I said, I'd have no complaints if we won with it. It's affective, just horrible to watch.
And I worry about it to a certain extent as well that Cork has never played that kind of hurling, not since like the 1920s and Cork might be too proud to change their style. We have this lovely flowing run at you type of game which is great to watch when it works. But to survive you need to adapt. That's how KK play, it's affective, it may not be real hurling but it wins you game. And to beat KK you need to beat them at their own game..so that will mean all the other teams trying to play like that which will lead to win hell of a shitty championship.
Like don't get me wrong. The days where a FB was a monster and could act like it, like The Rock..etc I liked, he's an old fashioned FB. But those days are gone unfortunately. But I don't mind this like that it's just the way the ENTIRE KK team play. I personally don't like it.
But we might have played beautiful hurling but we still lost. Oh the irony. I want KK to be worked and maybe beaten. They haven't had to work for much in a few seasons. If it's another KK walkover then hurling will be in a sad state and Leinster needs to be rapidly changed. Because a lot will have to do with how much Waterford have left to throw at KK.

For Waterford I'm sick to death of their I deserve it, divine right attitude.
You win an AI by winning an AI. Ya KK get a semi final place handed to them, but they still get their through Leinster. It might be the biggest pile of crap ever but it's not their fault. People keep saying it needs to be changed, it needs to be changed, but know one does anything, it's about time someone did.

But they go through their paces, what they have to do, it may not be much but they do it and get there. They get there..unlike Waterford.
You play your way to the final. Not because you feel you've the divine right for it. That and the kiss the crest Mullane, Big Dan type attitude. It is just so annoying.
Their fans as well are so arrogant. Like I'm used to snobby, arrogant KK fans, there are no other type, but they win all the time and have that attitude all the time. Waterford fans though, they've that irritating poor us we deserve and AI yet cocky attitude at the same time which will be doubled if they win. But in fairness to them they, unlike KK have turned up all season for the past God knows how long and have got no return, this year they might. KK fans show up for the final and get rewarded for it.

But then there's the fact that if Waterford win they'll break the mold which has been dominated by KK and Cork for the last decade or so.
A Waterford win would be a great boost for hurling in general.

So..who are the lesser of two evils.
KK's bad tactics or Waterford attitude. I honestly can't decide. But I think if I had to choose, I'd prefer, for hurlings sake, to preserve real hurling and to break the mold, I want Waterford to win.

Yea , it still great though . . .

Make sure and enjoy next Sunday . . .

[bad mucker]

Dear Gul

your "lovely running at you style of hurling" has more relationship to football tactics - whether from Ulster or not - than Kilkenny's hurling. And, by the way, the way Tyrone play fooball at the minute seems to be quite exciting, doesn't it? Kilkenny hurling has always been, and still is, full of the skills of the game - all the skills of the game, which include tight marking, strength under the dropping ball, as well as the flicks and stickwork which is their hallmark. Stop reading the papers and actually look with unblinkered eyes at a Kilkenny team playing.

Our game plan was to run at a team, with the likes of Naughton, Kenny..etc. It's how the football play it as well to an extent.
I love the way Tyrone play football, I want them to win the AI, but they'd be the exception to that Ulster rule.
Papers, all the papers do is lick yere hole, all they do is praise ye.

Yere hurling it may be full of great skill but it's now been taken over a bit by this style, because it's also full of crap such as holding players back with their stick, 3 or 4 players surrounding one of the other players and flattening them, cheap shots off the ball as well might at ad, poor Naughton went home with a hurley imprinted into his back. It's just yere type of play in general, as good and affective as it can be at times, it's not the easiest on the eyes.

you really are a class act.personally,i have no problem with the running game cork perfected with this team over the years.it actually is not that bad to look at,just frustrating when you want their opponents to win and the machine like momentum keeps the rebels ticking over(or at least did at their best).the problem people like you have is that your swayed by a need to devalue what you see as your biggest threat.it shows an inferiority complex on your part,as your points are impossible to put it mildly.people get bored with kilkenny because they win so much.in 06 most people i know from outside kilkenny wanted us to stop corks 3 in a row,mainly because they were sick of the sight of them.the skill of this kilkenny team is something to behold,and if you were at the semi you would have seen that.equally the skill of the cork team.they might be slipping,but watching the second half display against galway was pure class and i personally was delighted they won,the simple fact that a great team was getting written off before an up and coming side warranted such a lesson.cork hit very hard in that game,and following pitch invasions and journalistic rants no one tried to dampen the result by lambasting players or team.waterford are more physical again.teams on top always have the look of swarming their opponents,thats because they are the team on top.look at cork 04 against kilkenny.the kk forwards seemed to have 3 men around them everytime they got possession.puke hurling is the most dismissive,idiotic,oxymoronic statement i have heard.get a clue boss

[GUL]

Dear Gul

your "lovely running at you style of hurling" has more relationship to football tactics - whether from Ulster or not - than Kilkenny's hurling. And, by the way, the way Tyrone play fooball at the minute seems to be quite exciting, doesn't it? Kilkenny hurling has always been, and still is, full of the skills of the game - all the skills of the game, which include tight marking, strength under the dropping ball, as well as the flicks and stickwork which is their hallmark. Stop reading the papers and actually look with unblinkered eyes at a Kilkenny team playing.

Our game plan was to run at a team, with the likes of Naughton, Kenny..etc. It's how the football play it as well to an extent.
I love the way Tyrone play football, I want them to win the AI, but they'd be the exception to that Ulster rule.
Papers, all the papers do is lick yere hole, all they do is praise ye.

Yere hurling it may be full of great skill but it's now been taken over a bit by this style, because it's also full of crap such as holding players back with their stick, 3 or 4 players surrounding one of the other players and flattening them, cheap shots off the ball as well might at ad, poor Naughton went home with a hurley imprinted into his back. It's just yere type of play in general, as good and affective as it can be at times, it's not the easiest on the eyes.

you really are a class act.personally,i have no problem with the running game cork perfected with this team over the years.it actually is not that bad to look at,just frustrating when you want their opponents to win and the machine like momentum keeps the rebels ticking over(or at least did at their best).the problem people like you have is that your swayed by a need to devalue what you see as your biggest threat.it shows an inferiority complex on your part,as your points are impossible to put it mildly.people get bored with kilkenny because they win so much.in 06 most people i know from outside kilkenny wanted us to stop corks 3 in a row,mainly because they were sick of the sight of them.the skill of this kilkenny team is something to behold,and if you were at the semi you would have seen that.equally the skill of the cork team.they might be slipping,but watching the second half display against galway was pure class and i personally was delighted they won,the simple fact that a great team was getting written off before an up and coming side warranted such a lesson.cork hit very hard in that game,and following pitch invasions and journalistic rants no one tried to dampen the result by lambasting players or team.waterford are more physical again.teams on top always have the look of swarming their opponents,thats because they are the team on top.look at cork 04 against kilkenny.the kk forwards seemed to have 3 men around them everytime they got possession.puke hurling is the most dismissive,idiotic,oxymoronic statement i have heard.get a clue boss

It's true, people get bored of a team, not so much envious just bored, like you said, everyone wanted Cork to win in 04, KK in 06, and well now Waterford I suppose.
It used to wreck my head, oh Cork again, it's not our fault we were good like. KK's game style is very affective, if it was different style, the bored factor would be a lot easier to deal with, because as much as you're sick of a team at least they're good to watch.
KK off the ball I hate their tactics, but there's no denying the skill level of the players on the team. Top class.
But as good as it is, people prefer seeing flashy stuff. But hell that didn't help us win.
The better team who does what it has to will win. If that means boring thousands and thousands of people then so be it.

But I love hurling, I love the fast paced, pure skill of it. Now Cork GAA has always really had that type of style. Like short passes, just working scores..etc. And the players that are coming through now, the kids are those type of players, but times are changing, to beat ye, we have to beat yere game style, which ultimately means beating ye at yere own game. I'm just afraid that the team will be too stubborn to change it's style.

[Korky]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

bad mucker wrote:
GUL wrote:
saffron wrote:
Dear Gul

your "lovely running at you style of hurling" has more relationship to football tactics - whether from Ulster or not - than Kilkenny's hurling. And, by the way, the way Tyrone play fooball at the minute seems to be quite exciting, doesn't it? Kilkenny hurling has always been, and still is, full of the skills of the game - all the skills of the game, which include tight marking, strength under the dropping ball, as well as the flicks and stickwork which is their hallmark. Stop reading the papers and actually look with unblinkered eyes at a Kilkenny team playing.


Our game plan was to run at a team, with the likes of Naughton, Kenny..etc. It's how the football play it as well to an extent.
I love the way Tyrone play football, I want them to win the AI, but they'd be the exception to that Ulster rule.
Papers, all the papers do is lick yere hole, all they do is praise ye.

Yere hurling it may be full of great skill but it's now been taken over a bit by this style, because it's also full of crap such as holding players back with their stick, 3 or 4 players surrounding one of the other players and flattening them, cheap shots off the ball as well might at ad, poor Naughton went home with a hurley imprinted into his back. It's just yere type of play in general, as good and affective as it can be at times, it's not the easiest on the eyes.



you really are a class act.personally,i have no problem with the running game cork perfected with this team over the years.it actually is not that bad to look at,just frustrating when you want their opponents to win and the machine like momentum keeps the rebels ticking over(or at least did at their best).the problem people like you have is that your swayed by a need to devalue what you see as your biggest threat.it shows an inferiority complex on your part,as your points are impossible to put it mildly.people get bored with kilkenny because they win so much.in 06 most people i know from outside kilkenny wanted us to stop corks 3 in a row,mainly because they were sick of the sight of them.the skill of this kilkenny team is something to behold,and if you were at the semi you would have seen that.equally the skill of the cork team.they might be slipping,but watching the second half display against galway was pure class and i personally was delighted they won,the simple fact that a great team was getting written off before an up and coming side warranted such a lesson.cork hit very hard in that game,and following pitch invasions and journalistic rants no one tried to dampen the result by lambasting players or team.waterford are more physical again.teams on top always have the look of swarming their opponents,thats because they are the team on top.look at cork 04 against kilkenny.the kk forwards seemed to have 3 men around them everytime they got possession.puke hurling is the most dismissive,idiotic,oxymoronic statement i have heard.get a clue boss


It's true, people get bored of a team, not so much envious just bored, like you said, everyone wanted Cork to win in 04, KK in 06, and well now Waterford I suppose.
It used to wreck my head, oh Cork again, it's not our fault we were good like. KK's game style is very affective, if it was different style, the bored factor would be a lot easier to deal with, because as much as you're sick of a team at least they're good to watch.
KK off the ball I hate their tactics, but there's no denying the skill level of the players on the team. Top class.
But as good as it is, people prefer seeing flashy stuff. But hell that didn't help us win.
The better team who does what it has to will win. If that means boring thousands and thousands of people then so be it.

But I love hurling, I love the fast paced, pure skill of it. Now Cork GAA has always really had that type of style. Like short passes, just working scores..etc. And the players that are coming through now, the kids are those type of players, but times are changing, to beat ye, we have to beat yere game style, which ultimately means beating ye at yere own game. I'm just afraid that the team will be too stubborn to change it's style.


I don't know what you are on about. the Kilkenny style of hurling has never changed and the present team has no special plan to stop opponents etc. Just take of your glasses and observe next Sundays match. Kilkenny will dominate possesion from set polay i.e puckouts and frees because they are very good at it and are picked for their all round ability to win ball.They don't depend on keeping possesion like Cork try to do because each and every one of them can win their own ball. When you have players like that the plan is to get the ball into the danger zone as quickly as possible. The ball that is not won but breaks is fiercly but fairly contested. If the ball is won by an opponent each player works hard at blocking and hooking and harrying to pressurise the other player to strike poorly. But most of our players from 8 in can pick off scores easier than most and the odd goal happens. Its as simple as that. Brian Cody has these lads motivated to a huge degree and when you have all those ingredients in a panel they will be hard to beat.

[GUL]

I HATE this oh KK have no game plan, they have no certain style, they just go out and play with no plan at all.
It's complete bull. Almost as bad as anyone can be dropped from the KK team, it's all bull.
KK's style has changed, maybe you should take off the tinted glasses.

[Hattons Grace]

KK's style has changed, maybe you should take off the tinted glasses.

Tell us specifically how it has changed ?

[boddy]

KK's style has changed, maybe you should take off the tinted glasses.

Tell us specifically how it has changed ?

kilkenny work harder now! simple as!

[Bogcat]

Bigger, stronger, fitter, different positioning of the lines moving forwards and backwards with the ball. Closing down space.
Everybody including forwards fighting like demons for the ball. Very intense high tempo hurling, not afraid to make subs. More passing and everything that's got better over the years.
Call it improvements, working harder, style changing. Call it what you like but game develops and will continue to develop.

[GUL]

More, I don't know, ye always had that game at yere core, but as ye went on and improved it ye got more and more, I don't know, bullyish if you know what I mean.

The higher the intensity, the year on year improvement means harder tackles, harder approach to the game, I can't really explain it but hopefully ye know what I mean, or maybe ye can't see it or don't care because ye win with it, I don't know. But while it's affective, and a hard to beat game plan, like if that's the way the style of hurling is going then I'm not looking forward to the future of hurling in this country. I personally just don't like the style.

[boddy]

More, I don't know, ye always had that game at yere core, but as ye went on and improved it ye got more and more, I don't know, bullyish if you know what I mean.

The higher the intensity, the year on year improvement means harder tackles, harder approach to the game, I can't really explain it but hopefully ye know what I mean, or maybe ye can't see it or don't care because ye win with it, I don't know. But while it's affective, and a hard to beat game plan, like if that's the way the style of hurling is going then I'm not looking forward to the future of hurling in this country. I personally just don't like the style.

Gul i think you should watch more camogie, hurling is too manly for you!

[GUL]

More, I don't know, ye always had that game at yere core, but as ye went on and improved it ye got more and more, I don't know, bullyish if you know what I mean.

The higher the intensity, the year on year improvement means harder tackles, harder approach to the game, I can't really explain it but hopefully ye know what I mean, or maybe ye can't see it or don't care because ye win with it, I don't know. But while it's affective, and a hard to beat game plan, like if that's the way the style of hurling is going then I'm not looking forward to the future of hurling in this country. I personally just don't like the style.

Gul i think you should watch more camogie, hurling is too manly for you!

Boddy, the most vicious game I've ever seen was a club or school camogie game, it was years agol I think you should get out more and watch that. Girls, can be ten times more vicious then the lads teams. Every real GAA or hell real sports fan knows that.

At least it's answered my question, ye do see it, ye just don't care cause ye win games with it which is fair enough, I was just curious which one it was.

[Hattons Grace]

KK's style has changed, maybe you should take off the tinted glasses.

Tell us specifically how it has changed ?

Gul , Please tell me how Kilkennys style has changed ?

For your information, Nicky English spoke on Newstalk on Monday 11th, the day after the KK v CK game , and he said of Kilkennys display
' ...... If I was over a team, thats exactly the way I would want them to play hurling . . .. . '

I don't think you know a lot about the game to be honest.
It's a know fact that lots of Cork people detest the newtownshandrum game that ye employed , its a bastardisation of hurling to be honest.
Your current manager even tried to get rid of it , but couldn't stand up to the current players, and they hadn't the manners to respect his view.

The current Kilkenny team play hurling as it should be played, and luckly for us they are real hurlers and real men.

[RedRebel]

KK's style has changed, maybe you should take off the tinted glasses.

Tell us specifically how it has changed ?

Gul , Please tell me how Kilkennys style has changed ?

For your information, Nicky English spoke on Newstalk on Monday 11th, the day after the KK v CK game , and he said of Kilkennys display
' ...... If I was over a team, thats exactly the way I would want them to play hurling . . .. . '

I don't think you know a lot about the game to be honest.
It's a know fact that lots of Cork people detest the newtownshandrum game that ye employed , its a bastardisation of hurling to be honest.
Your current manager even tried to get rid of it , but couldn't stand up to the current players, and they hadn't the manners to respect his view.

The current Kilkenny team play hurling as it should be played, and luckly for us they are real hurlers and real men.

While I wouldn't be too over critical of KK's style of hurling, its still 'hunting in packs' and is not attractive to watch. The Cork style mainly requires skill, the Kilkenny style mainly requires muscle.
The only criticism of Corks hurling style I've ever witnessed in Cork was from old traditionalists, that just want the ball cleared no matter where it goes. Those days are long gone!
My main gripe is that Cork employed a tactic that suited the players they had, they really didn't have any choice in the matter if they wanted to win a few matches. KK have done exactly the same thing - so why still criticise Cork for doing it?

[clash]

I'm a sligoman and I'm pretty much neutral.

Won't be too upset or happy no matter who wins. What I want is a great game of hurling to end the year.

I would be slightly in favour of Waterford, but thats absolutely nothing to do with it been Waterford vs Kilkenny. I just always have a slight draw towards supporting the underdog. It wouldn't matter who was playing, I would have a slight draw in shouting for the underdog.

I have absolutely no time for this "Its waterfords destiny", they "earned" it bullshit. And I am guessing that most Waterford people don't actually believe that rubbish, its the bloody media again talking through its various ass cracks.

If Kilkenny win I will be quite happy to admire a great great team that has never let their fans or hurling fans in general down. I will admit that generally I wouldn't be too pushed about watching Kilkenny in Leinster because they are simply too good for the other teams but thats hardly their fault.

If Waterford win I will be quite happy to admire a geat achievement by a good team with some great players on it. I'm really not a fan of the "hot and cold" teams like Waterford though. Consistency is what makes a team great and Waterford are only consistent in their inconsistency.

And can I just state one more thing. The jokers here talking about Kilkenny playing puke hurling, dirty tactics etc are really talking through their asses.

Kilkenny always play hard but its good hard fair play 99% of the time. I love watching Kilkenny play specifically for that reason, they always have fight in them and are physical but within the rules. I hate the "pussification" of gaelic football and I hate the lesser "pussification" of hurling.

Most teams will put up a physical battle for one match or for a few minutes of one match. Kilkenny do it for 70+ minutes and its a joy to watch speaking as a neutral hurling supporter.

[Hattons Grace]

KK's style has changed, maybe you should take off the tinted glasses.

Tell us specifically how it has changed ?

Gul , Please tell me how Kilkennys style has changed ?

For your information, Nicky English spoke on Newstalk on Monday 11th, the day after the KK v CK game , and he said of Kilkennys display
' ...... If I was over a team, thats exactly the way I would want them to play hurling . . .. . '

I don't think you know a lot about the game to be honest.
It's a know fact that lots of Cork people detest the newtownshandrum game that ye employed , its a bastardisation of hurling to be honest.
Your current manager even tried to get rid of it , but couldn't stand up to the current players, and they hadn't the manners to respect his view.

The current Kilkenny team play hurling as it should be played, and luckly for us they are real hurlers and real men.

While I wouldn't be too over critical of KK's style of hurling, its still 'hunting in packs' and is not attractive to watch. The Cork style mainly requires skill, the Kilkenny style mainly requires muscle.
The only criticism of Corks hurling style I've ever witnessed in Cork was from old traditionalists, that just want the ball cleared no matter where it goes. Those days are long gone!
My main gripe is that Cork employed a tactic that suited the players they had, they really didn't have any choice in the matter if they wanted to win a few matches. KK have done exactly the same thing - so why still criticise Cork for doing it?

funny post , not one of your best efforts RR

[wexfordian]

I'm hoping Waterford win but only because they are the underdogs. Definitely have no time for the whole Waterford "deserve" it attitude. Both sets of players are amateurs who work their nuts off to get to the final.....so neither deserves it more or less than the other. Most Wexford lads I know hope Waterford win but that's because of local rivalry. However lots of Dublin lads I play hurling with hope Kilkenny win so it stays in Leinster......Anyway I hope it's a good match for all the neutrals. Hurling needs a classic encounter to finish off the year.

[johnpower]

The Cork style mainly requires skill, the Kilkenny style mainly requires muscle.

I'll give you that one RR, the skill involved for Cork is how to use those batting monstrosities of hurls.

[licksy]

The Cork style mainly requires skill, the Kilkenny style mainly requires muscle.

The brain is an organ, RR - not a muscle.

[Rebel with a Cause]

At the risk of my fellow rebels doing a Beal na Blath on me, here's one Corkman who wouldn't especially mind KK doing the 3 in a row. If you think about it, it would really highlight the quality of the hurling played by a lot of counties, as well as obviously highlighting those that did the 3 in a row. The standard that KK have set is incredible and had/has to be. I for one don't think Cody is being disingenious when he says if he team aren't 100% that they will be beat more often than they are.

On the flip side wouldn't mind seeing Wford doing it either for the obvious reasons. There was a picture in yesterday's Examiner of Mullane signing autographs after an open training session. It took me a while to pick him out such was the crowd. Shows the love of hurling that's there and was a heart-warming picture to see.

I see this thread has moved into style of play. The games of hurling I can remember, say from early 80s on, had Cork teams generally lashing the ball forward to big full-fwd lines supplemented by sniffers (eg Schillaci) and KK playing more diagonal ball for what seemed to me, and I hope my memory isn't failing, generally small KK fwd lines (lads like C.Hennessy apart).

KK now have a big, big team, with even the light fwds well able to hold their ground. Cork have a lighter team from no.10 up. So hence the different tactics - different players. No big cause for dispute there surely. Now this isn't to downplay KK's excellent tactical approach - ie of the hf line coming out and the hitting of ball into space, or Cork's occasional, perhaps too occasional, use of the long ball, but what you have you use. A lesson for Gerlock perhaps with Gway.

KK won't always be this big and others relatively small. The wheel will turn. It always has.

What KK is doing is not puke hurling. They stand their ground and expect you to do the same. Should suit most backlines if you think about it. Food for thought for those teams that it doesn't.

[RedRebel]

What KK is doing is not puke hurling. They stand their ground and expect you to do the same. Should suit most backlines if you think about it. Food for thought for those teams that it doesn't.

Its not puke hurling to the extent that some teams have used it, like Portumna against Newtown for example, or Erins Own in the 2006 Cork final, the score was something like 0-4 to 0-2 at half time. But there is definitly an element of it in KK's style this year.
My main beef with the topic is to do with the level of abuse Cork recieved for using the running game, yet Cork were involved in more classic games over the last 5 years then anybody. The main reason for this is because their style promotes all the skills involved in hurling.
The KK style (whatever you want to call it) doesn't. Also the KK is not physical - its dirty.